I am happy to help your team, but I am reluctant to remove a team founder without good cause. I was unable to read the forum thread you reference; the URL doesn't work, and as a non-member I am unable to read some of your forums in any case. But that doesn't matter, since I really don't want to get involved with the details of internal team matters.

While we still have old server code here, it is new enough that it includes the team founder transfer mechanism. The idea is that if a founder is absent and neglects the team for too long then there is a way for someone to take over the reins. But there is a long wait -- I think it's two months. And if the founder is not absent then he or she can accept or decline the transfer. Have you tried this? Did the current founder in fact decline the transfer? I see from the public information on your team server that BlkJack-21 was one of the original four founders of your team. In that case I can imagine that he might wish to remain listed as founder here, and I would not want to casually replace him if he's still active.

It does seem to be the case that the team page here points to the wrong server, but the one it points to now has a redirect to the correct one. Still, I agree that it would be better if it pointed more directly, and clearly the team description should be corrected. So that is a sign of some neglect.

I do see that the team founder has changed at SETI@home, but I note that it has not changed at Einstein@Home. But I don't feel that the same person must necessarily be listed as founder on each project. While I am listed as founder of the Pirates@Home team on many other projects, there are others where someone else plays that role; and for projects that I don't crunch for, or especially where I don't visit the forums, I'm happy to have someone else provide the services and oversight of the founder there. As long, of course, as they don't cause damage or embarrassment to the rest of the pirates.

So that seems to be a key question. Has BlkJack-21 neglected his duties, or done worse and done damage to the team somehow? Rest assured that if your members are deleted here then they can be restored from backups, which are performed regularly, even though the work here has been intermittent. And a wholesale purge of membership might well be considered enough to warrant removal as founder.

If this were a real pirate ship I could imagine an interesting way to settle this. We would tie the two of you together by your left hands, stick a dagger in opposite gunwales, and let ye two have at it. But not to the death, of course, since I would not be happy to lose the labor of an able bodied seaman. Just enough to determine a clear winner.

That's a bit dramatic, and this isn't a real pirate ship, so we'll do this in a more civilized way. From my point of view, how do I know you really represent the views of SETI.USA? Is there even a consensus among your team as to who should represent your interests? How can I know that removing the long-standing founder here would not be contributing to a mutiny within the greater team? In the least, I'm open to hearing from BlkJack-21 if he opposes the transfer. I'm open to comments from other members of the team as well, but again I don't want to get involved in the internal workings of the team. Keep in mind this is not a democracy, so we won't be counting votes. And I won't tolerate a lack of respect or decorum in the discussion. Consider court in session.

The real question is what direct effect the transfer would have on this project, not any of the others. Has BlkJack-21 done any damage here, either actively or by neglect? Is this a legitimate request or an attempt at a coup d'e tat? What say ye BlkJack-21?




____________
-- Eric Myers

"Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire." -- William Butler Yeats

Cruncher Pete, I responded to your post here because that's where you posted it. I am afraid that I didn't get any PM, but if you tried you should have found that the PM facility on this project does not work (yet). What you may not have noticed is the link on the main page of the project called Contact project administrators. You could have (and still can) use that to send a message to me (and it goes to a couple of moderators as well).

I looked for a similar link on the front page of the SETI.USA server, but could not find any. As you already appreciate, I would like to be assured that I am really communicating with someone who represents the team. I don't care about the internal politics. If I know that you represent the wishes of the team, I will make the change. So one way to proceed would be for a "contact administrators" link to appear on that site. I would follow that, and through an exchange of private information we could establish verified communication between this project and your team.

I said earlier that I don't care about other projects, but that's not really true. Large teams like yours which contribute to multiple projects are an important part of the BOINC "ecosystem". If you are still working on recovering control of the team on other projects, adding a "contact administrators" link to your server might help with those other efforts as well. In general anything you can do to make the job easier for the other project administrators is likely to increase your chances of success, since they are usually very busy with much more than just project administration.
____________
-- Eric Myers

"Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire." -- William Butler Yeats

] As regards our Contact on the forum. You might have missed it. At the bottom of the page there is an option to "Contact Us" which will be seen by all Admins if anybody uses it.

Whatever the outcome of this is I would appreciate if you could delete this thread as I am kind of uncomfortable airing the teams problems out in the open even though I started the thread.

It's a spam prevention thing not to be displayed. Unfortunately bots and other motley brigands tend to spam it.

A couple of years ago I've been involved in the Space Family hijack saga and tried to investigate their pirated teams BOINC-wide - some of the major ones have fortunately been returned to their legitimate owners.

This situation is a bit different. Noone has stolen anything and we are not allowed to force him walking the plank - which would quickly solve all apparent problems.

The hidden remains the ethics (or politics? I'm maybe not good enough in either of them)-. - "Who is more legitimate to keep the team?" The original, but (for currently unknown reasons) bitterish founder, who wishes to take teams in his holdings "into the grave" and seems to have all rights to do so, or the remaining active part of the former team, the majority of is possibly innocent in the breeze among the upper management...
____________
Peter .-)

Even though this project is not doing much these days, my hope has always been that it could contribute to learning about how to do things or not do things right. In the present case, the question was whether there is a clear best practice for a contested transfer of a team. I had hoped for a general answer, but I only find one in a limited case. But I think it shows how it might be best done on other projects and for future conflicts. We shall see.

The mechanism for transfer of an abandoned team does not apply here, since the original founder has replied. And I must say I give great weight to the request of the original founder to remain in place. I would probably honor that request in the case of a team which exists only on this project. But it is important to consider that the team in question exists across many different projects, and the team has also set up a separate server with their own forums. Given that, I felt that control of the team should be given to whoever controls that separate site.

I took some care in verifying that I really was talking to the administrators of that site. After they enabled their "Contact us" link I made use of it, and I gave them a secret code word. If they could tell me the code word in our other communication then I would know that I really was talking to the site admins. And that's what happened.

And so I have transferred the team founder as requested, with no prejudice (at least here) to crewman BlkJack-21.

Perhaps this mechanism will help SETI.USA recover their teams on other projects. It will likely require keeping that "Contact us" link working. If spam is really a problem you might consider switching to reCAPTCHA, which is what is used here, and I could give some assistance. Remember, the project admins are busy and don't want to have to do too much. A request from someone claiming to represent a team may well be legitimate, but it might also be mischief in progress, and so the project admin needs a way to know that he/she is really talking to the team leadership.

It has been requested that this thread be removed. I'll leave it up for a few days to get the word out, and then I'll hide it from the public and the crew, now that the issue is resolved, unless that request is withdrawn.

Thanks to all participants for a very civil discussion, which I hope helps all BOINC projects in the future. But as I said earlier, we shall see.
____________
-- Eric Myers

"Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire." -- William Butler Yeats